Has anyone seen this book yet?

[lonewriter]

Originally Posted by Treybor

I'll have to render out a side by side compare with the concept art and my mesh but I still think parts of my mesh were used. But even if it's a kit bash there should be some credit.

Let me know if you need me to look in the book for something else.

[vitruvian]

this shape looks very familiar with the one used in the movie , in the original space jockey chair from alien movie I not found any similar shape as Treybor done.


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[Treybor]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

this shape looks very familiar with the one used in the movie , in the original space jockey chair from alien movie I not found any similar shape as Treybor done.


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Not talking about the base.
We were talking about the walls in the concept painting only. They look like my mesh without subpatching on.

[Treybor]

Definitely a kitbash of my mesh....

[colkai]

Dat is rather naughty of them!

[David cgc]

If each specific piece is credited to someone in the book, has anyone tried to contact the actual artist and see what he has to say? I mean, it looks like a painting to me, which would make the whole thing a lot more complicated ethically than if it were a straight-up 3D render.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Treybor

Not talking about the base.
We were talking about the walls in the concept painting only. They look like my mesh without subpatching on.

I know that , but that "shape" looks alike with that one in your model .

[vitruvian]

Indeed that was a 3D model in the art book made by the hired designer for visualize the "alien" chamber and not a paint.

[Treybor]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

I know that , but that "shape" looks alike with that one in your model .

Ah! got it. I misunderstood. Sorry.

Originally Posted by David cgc

If each specific piece is credited to someone in the book, has anyone tried to contact the actual artist and see what he has to say? I mean, it looks like a painting to me, which would make the whole thing a lot more complicated ethically than if it were a straight-up 3D render.

True...

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Indeed that was a 3D model in the art book made by the hired designer for visualize the "alien" chamber and not a paint.

It looks like a render that's been turning into a CG mat painting using Photoshop...

Originally Posted by colkai

Dat is rather naughty of them!

It kind of violates or terms of use.....

2. This asset is for non-commercial use unless permission is granted in writing by F3D or the Author. <-- Not done
3. Use of this asset in commercial applications requires a credit for creation go to the Author. <-- Not done
8. The name of F3D or the originating Author may not used to endorse or promote products or software derived from the contents of this Package without specific prior written permission.<-- Not done
6. You may otherwise modify your copy of this Package in any way, provided that you do one of the following:
* a) make your modified Package Publically Available by posting said Package to the Resources Section of www.foundation3d.com .<-- Not done
* b) use the modified Package only within your corporation or organization..<-- Possible
* c) make other distribution arrangements with F3D. .<-- Not done

[vitruvian]

It looks like a render that's been turning into a CG mat painting using Photoshop...

Yes,could be.

The strange thing is that the designer hired to do the new "alien" look
not was credited in IMDB , neither Steve Burg as designer.

Anyway the guy is Alex Kozhanov AKA Gutalin , well known in ZBrush forums.

[David cgc]

Well, the IMDB is only as good as its contributions. In practice, it ends up being a bit like Wikipedia, except harder to change (for good and for ill).

[Meurig]

Originally Posted by Treybor

2. This asset is for non-commercial use unless permission is granted in writing by F3D or the Author. <-- Not done
3. Use of this asset in commercial applications requires a credit for creation go to the Author. <-- Not done
8. The name of F3D or the originating Author may not used to endorse or promote products or software derived from the contents of this Package without specific prior written permission.<-- Not done
6. You may otherwise modify your copy of this Package in any way, provided that you do one of the following:
* a) make your modified Package Publically Available by posting said Package to the Resources Section of www.foundation3d.com .<-- Not done
* b) use the modified Package only within your corporation or organization..<-- Possible
* c) make other distribution arrangements with F3D. .<-- Not done

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment.

You have no rights to the material, as it's a replication of a design ultimately owned by Fox. Fox - by extension - are using a model based on something they own.

Legally it's a bit grey, but I don't really think you have any right to tell them - note, not everybody - how they can use it.


Personally I think it's pretty cheeky, doubly so if the same company has done this to you before, although I must admit I can't see concrete similarities in the comparison picture you posted. It looks similar but then it would do because it's based on the same thing, the sets built for Alien.

[Jedi2016]

Bear in mind that the publisher didn't do this.. the film's concept artists did. The fact that the book happened to be published by the same company that bit him before is just a coincidence in this case, because the staff of Titan Books didn't actually produce any of the art.

Seeing as the image wasn't actually used in the film, but merely as a drop-in background for concept art, I don't see how you can realistically expect them to give any kind of credit for it. Concept artists grab whatever they can to cobble together an image for the director to say yay or nay. It wasn't even the walls being highlighted in that image, it was the cryosleep pod. Time constraints would handily explain why they chose to simply render a generic background image instead of spending hours painting it by hand.

The shape that Vetruvian refers to was part of the original design for the first film in 1979.. it's always been there, it wasn't something that Treybor designed specifically for his mesh. With something like this, you really have to look into where the elements are coming from.. is the design Treybor's? Or H.R. Giger's? In this case, it's Giger.

And, unfortunately, Meurig's right.. the original design of the mesh was always Fox's. Our EULA will hold up perfectly fine in court.. for original designs. But not for derivative ones.

There's really only one person you can have a beef with in this case, and that's the artist that created that specific image. And there's no telling who that was.

[Mikala]

I guess it's just sad some dinglenuts got credited/paid for doing concept work using someone else work.
Don't care as to the "who" just that they did not do the work themselves and resorted to pilfering.

[NanoGator]

*Every* illustrator borrows elements. Their job isn't to make a book, it's to get the idea in front of the director and approved.

[Woody]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Yes,could be.

The strange thing is that the designer hired to do the new "alien" look
not was credited in IMDB , neither Steve Burg as designer.

Anyway the guy is Alex Kozhanov AKA Gutalin , well known in ZBrush forums.

Bump for Alex - amazing, amazing, amazing artist. Check him out: http://www.gutalin.org/

[Mikala]

Originally Posted by NanoGator

*Every* illustrator borrows elements. Their job isn't to make a book, it's to get the idea in front of the director and approved.

"Borrow" when your paid.."theft" or at least a "Cease and desist" order when you do it for free. At least that seems to be the way of things lately.

[Jedi2016]

Originally Posted by Mikala

I guess it's just sad some dinglenuts got credited/paid for doing concept work using someone else work.

As I pointed out, the "concept" wasn't the wall, it was the stasis pod. It just happened to be in the room that had the wall in it. I don't define that as being a "stolen concept". Treybor did not invent that design.

I'm also not 100% convinced that it is Sean's wall. I can see this being a situation of easy mixups because you have many people all creating pictures and renders of the exact same thing.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Jedi2016

The shape that Vetruvian refers to was part of the original design for the first film in 1979.. it's always been there, it wasn't something that Treybor designed specifically for his mesh. With something like this, you really have to look into where the elements are coming from.. is the design Treybor's? Or H.R. Giger's? In this case, it's Giger.

Yes, its was there but its has a totally diferent form as treybor did , in the 1979 movie that form is more organic (looks like a bone ) .That specific shape in Prometheus Art Book base chair for me looks more with Treybor design than the one in the 1979 movie.You can see it perfectly in this maquete of the Space Jockey chair , one of the bests already made , that has all the originals elements of the 1979 movie.

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/...6235170_13.jpg

And compare with the shape of Giger design in this still from the movie.





A large and better view of the base chair with the "bone shape" can be viewed in this link.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MbCsqCMak2...pacejockey.jpg

[Jedi2016]

The point's still moot as far as I'm concerned. Sean would have to prove that they intentionally used his mesh as a concept design for the film, and that his personal designs were used in the final film. And that's not going to happen because everything that Sean built into that mesh already belonged to Fox.

My suggestion would be to drop it. Push this too hard, and Fox could easily turn right around and sue Sean for public distribution of Fox intellectual property.

Our EULA does not cover usage by the original owners of the designs that we're copying. We have no legal ground to stand on here. Let it go.

[vitruvian]

And Messing says that some of the iconic shots in this film pay homage to Chesley Bonestell with strong graphic elements of light and shadow. Other art references include old Giger drawings, national monuments, large installation sculptures and the Crazy Horse monument in South Dakota.

Part of an article found in this link :

http://io9.com/5917639/10-things-you...-of-prometheus

I guess it will be more interesting we have fun seeing this designs , and avoid any intellectual property since I guess is not suitable pay homage to any designer with your own artistic interpretation.

[Treybor]

Hmmm .... thanks for all the feedback guys. Like I said at the beginning of the thread, I kind of expect this to happen when I post a model for public use. I've just gotten used to people contacting me about it if it's not a standard personal project.

I'll likely contact the the studio or production team, just for the satisfaction of having my work known. But that's likely all.

[vitruvian]

Treybor , people like you that made so many tributes to his favorites films that should be recognized by those who have the intellectual rights of such works as the actual people who perpetuate the myth !

[Marty Miller]

Originally Posted by Treybor

Hmmm .... thanks for all the feedback guys. Like I said at the beginning of the thread, I kind of expect this to happen when I post a model for public use. I've just gotten used to people contacting me about it if it's not a standard personal project.

I'll likely contact the the studio or production team, just for the satisfaction of having my work known. But that's likely all.

Hey Sean,

Good luck buddy................and while your at it, make an updated version of the jockey

But really , best of luck mate.

[Treybor]

Originally Posted by Marty Miller

and while your at it, make an updated version of the jockey

.

LOLOL

[Jedi2016]

Actually, I've been eyeballing the mesh to see if I can get it to animate like the one in the film.

[Treybor]

Steven Messing got a hold of me. Someone on the forum let him know I was frustrated about the situation and I showed him the side by side image.
He was very helpful and understanding

Originally Posted by Steven

before seeing the side-by-side
I was contacted by a fellow 3d artist stating that pieces of your Jockey model may have been used in some of our early previs renders that ended up in a few concept paintings. If this is true I apologize as these early illustrations were never intended for publication and were rough mockups. Sometimes things are kit-bashed in previs from found parts and there may have been an instance where some of your elements were used by the team. I really can't verify this but it is certainly possible.

I was involved in the final set designs for most of the new Pilot Chamber and I can assure you that I used none of your elements in my designs. The final wall sections were handled by the UK art department and were built using traditional drafting methods.

I hope this helps add some clarification. I took a look at you site and you have some very nice work.

after seeing the side-by-side

I can understand the frustration. I have had similar situations happen to my work and it sucks. I will forward this to the concept team so that they are aware that parts of your model may have been used in early mock-ups.

As this is an original design of Giger's and the IP is owened by FOX, I think it will be very hard to get any credit from the publisher. In fact, several of the film's designers didn't receive credit in the art book at all.

I will be sure to give you a mention on my website whenever I put up my work but I will not be including any of the early previs paint-overs. I will ask the other members of the team to do the same.

This is very unfortunate but I hope it helps some.

Thanks to everyone who helped investigate this.