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Old 24th Apr 2018, 06:24 PM   #1381
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Fooling around with bits here and there. Gotta redo those torp markings heh. Thinking those scoop things I stole off the destroyer need rework too as they just do not fit scale wise, the thin walls just do not match up.

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Old 24th Apr 2018, 11:35 PM   #1382
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Ok duffed about with those sipe things (sensor blisters?) Detached and added unique mapping for each panel on the upper saucer. and extruded in the grids on the flat area of the topside. I think it shows off the grids more without the odd there and not there appearance of just cut grids due to the material defining them Here it is just all hull color and geo creating the darkness. Likely all the work on the saucer might be undone as I am really considering UVW unwrapping the mesh for custom diffuse maps. Also considering detaching and extruding up the red lines on the saucer so they look painted on. ATM they are just cut into the surface.





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Old 25th Apr 2018, 12:36 AM   #1383
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Now I said I wasnt going to do a rollbar but I thought that is the Buenos is doing spy stuff maybe it needs some sort of sensor cluster for snooping about. I did build struts and things to allow such thing to be clipped on. And so here is a slightly shrunk connie dish on a beer keg. I dunno what will go on there but I figured it might add some variability.

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Old 25th Apr 2018, 07:04 AM   #1384
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So just a bit of a aft render of it on the ship and some alterations to the bar. A bit cheesed off as somehow the seam polies got wiped when I was extruding things out. Need to figure out where it went or reproduce it again sheesh. Oh and this bar can JUST fit a turbo lift, now it will have to do grav plating tricks as in it will travel like those old bank airtubes and go sideways to avoid any janky rotating in shaft stuff. Then when it gets to the Keg, itll rotate to vertical. Though with grav plating I could see it be cool to have the floor go around the KEG so you just walk around the machine bits inside and access them as section-able things or pull out units.

Also looking at my other TOS stuff I did go a bit over conservative with things. It is more classic TOS than any sort of revision/update. I feel I let the model down some in this regard.





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Old 25th Apr 2018, 07:57 AM   #1385
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The main thing with your roll-bar, in my opinion, is that it makes the ship look more balanced. Visually speaking, that is.
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Old 25th Apr 2018, 11:15 AM   #1386
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I love the roll bar with the deflector dish. Very cool
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Old 25th Apr 2018, 11:23 PM   #1387
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Sticking with a dish for a bit so instead of the old spiked dish I thought maybe a covered dish as a inbetween to the TMP style. Kinda avoiding all the xmas tree looking crap like the connie on STD. Also added some hard points so you could imagine this being craned over by clamping onto the keg.


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Old 26th Apr 2018, 12:38 PM   #1388
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Man, I gotta say that looks absolutely fantastic. This like all your work is totally top notch. I don't get online very often, but when I do, this thread is one of my first stops. It's always a trip to see you take a basic block and turn it into a fully realized and realistic model.

As for your comment of being too conservative in this model, I have to disagree, you have a damn good base if you ever wanted to step it up a little towards movie era or tng...All that would be needed would be an upgrade to the engines, bridge, and sensor package....Maybe ditching the roll bar for a Nebula/Bozemann style sensor/weapon pod with a vertical pylon. You have many different upgrades and or mission specific potentials with this model, it could be anything from a cargo tug, resupply ship, espionage, or light and fast attack ship.
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Old 27th Apr 2018, 01:41 AM   #1389
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Some renders of me still working the keg shape. Adding other details and sensor like things. I should shrink things a bit, the deflector clears but orthos make it look a bit odd.






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Old 28th Apr 2018, 03:02 AM   #1390
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some updates





Most of it is collapsed now so details will be going in.
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Old 28th Apr 2018, 06:04 AM   #1391
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Rarg always once I click render I think of something I coulda done just before to add to the objects. heh.



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Old 28th Apr 2018, 09:28 PM   #1392
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Spent most of the day outlining the use of this mesh and planning future work as well as checking to make sure stuff mentioned actually aligns to the real world of the object. I have realigned my deck chart from the 8/6ft deck heights to a 10ft one for the 3meter avg height and got in 18 decks. Of course these wont align to everything as nothing like this is such a simple building style height. Think of those 70s split level houses that were so popular where you had rooms 2 or 3 stories tall some split in half as sunken pits or changes in elevation say a hallway in which you step down into the rooms and the like. I think averaging like this works out in the end as many split decks would just ge5t denoted as the next deck. As for numbers to letters I dunno as trek mixes them up WAY too much. Numerated seems more sensible as you do not have to think how many decks down or up your are from a location. Letters well, heh, worse if your not eng or even human.

Either way I needed at least a deck 8 through 12 to tear open. Granted these wont be a single hole as there is no real singular section I could get that range from.


Im sure some dork will rip the credits off and use this on a wika or RPG. . . . already seen major trek wiki pull off the CBS and my copyright creds off SOTL images. I do not mind people doing it to use as a background but a wiki, those should obey the no alteration rules. But either way figure someone would spurg nerd juice on the image I set up for my own use. Tarted it up with some bull$hit info vs just a vomit list of numbers and letters


As for mapping damage and planned work I have yet to decide if I will paintover to denote what will be done or if I will just go for it and do such onto the ship directly. I do think i should look at uvw unwraping her though as painted burns would be SOO much easier to do.



I cannot decide if I want to keep that fin thing on the bottom of the keg or not.
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Old 29th Apr 2018, 07:10 AM   #1393
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UGGGHH thought I would have a start on the UVW unwrap but NOOOO it took me all this time just to merge up the bits to rep for it. So tomorrow is when all the headaches start.







Anyhow hopefully I planned things right and it all goes ok and will be fairly easy to set up. Idea is to spread it all across 5 maps. Again these will be like the tos connie ones I did HUGE heh. One thing that probably wont happen is a 1to 1 scale on the parts as if I remember max defaults by screwing that up. It I guess will all depend on how it works out as it has been a while since I did this crap.
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Old 29th Apr 2018, 11:14 PM   #1394
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UGGGHHH hate uvw unwrap. May appear a bit heavy handed and strange atm but it is mostly placing crap and making sure things look ok. Again loads of back and forth as what I think works as a unwrap does not. That and goofs in the mesh prior to but if I edit it the entire unwwrap is lost even if I save the data if I weld or delete faces to simplify things it borks the entire lot. UGH. One example are those turbo lift caps. I forgot to delete the face underneath them and that has been a rage point. Also I forgot to weld the damned B deck blister down so I wont be able to do that at all until I collapse the unwrap which I dislike doing but welp there you go. I so hate UVW unwrap. HAH. I guess I have to do the whole lame distortion thing to my gloss and aniso maps vs the whole squashed sphere trick to create a repeating circular pattern from a rectangular map. Not all that sure how dirty or clean I want to make this either. I do plan to try to set up a faster render rig to cut down on these 45min renders. The 9k maps likely wont help at all.





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Old 30th Apr 2018, 09:27 PM   #1395
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Toned a lot of it down and added a pure white WIP light. I will likely start moving to just the GI light as even 14min renders are a huge sigh. For now I am moving to the rest of the unwrapping before I go further on the textures. Large part I think will be placing the surfacing stuff vs any diffuse which atm is all I have done. Some of my worry about the overdone dirt feel vanishes off in distance renders so I might not get to fussy. Mostly it is a argument with replicating what I did for the tos connie or do something else. Anyhow on to the hard part which is that damned central hull as the bits of it wrap all around the ship. Heck I really wanted to flatten the bridge more than I had as much of that unwrap was just projected planar snaps. The only things I really squashed were the turbo shafts and those were a bodgery in the extreme as max just did not want to do what I wanted so it was loop zoom loop zoom and hope I match the zoom on each loop as the stupid software would only zoop from centers of selections so if I looped both tubes and zoomed or enlarged it would do it from thew center of the entire group! not from each loops center like what I could do in the editor with the polygons. Oh well. . . . . uvw sux. Hell maybe I am doing it wrong but I refuse to use any of the walk tools as those will break an object into hundreds of bits that are just a nightmare of seams everywhere.
AHYNOW like any of that matters here is where I stopped on the uvws for now. (note the tonal change in the hull as my WIP lighting was super warm for some odd reason. Likely a leftover of when I was attempting to use photometrics or some other type of lighting. Sadly none of those worked as they are all not meant for global lighting IE large environs or space etc.



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Old 1st May 2018, 12:40 AM   #1396
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OHHH man massive ulcers, I have to flatten squish align and position each edge in alignment. BLEAHHHHh and even then there is sometimes slight distortions as windows just make all the tools vomit everywhere! so about what 30min per section of saucer. . . . . .

I know I flew through and bodged some bits on the connie, mostly as they had much easier to break up shapes. This thing though a lot of oops as I just dislike having seams say on the saucer rim. I imagine those as rounded objects with the seams further down off the curvature as to avoid weakness. Anyhow Paying for it NOW lol.

One thing I am debating is if I should map the panels on the saucer body itself as squares and let the mapping distort the patterns IE the shrinking of the pattern along the hull You can see this in the above image as the auto map flattened and squared up these parts. They are just messily arranged all over and of various sizes. Id clearly have to rearrange them and scale them properly. The other thing is alignments, getting the upper tiles to match to the rim etc as I want to try to keep seams near each other so painted details will line up vs the whole bull$hit of painting it to align across disjointed sections.
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Old 1st May 2018, 08:38 AM   #1397
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All bloody night and this is all I have. Most of that rim is finished the saucer top is roughly laid out but needs alignment and straightening of the edges. I dunno how I will automate that yet as it needs it. The only issue is I have not been able to select single panels and redo the "flattening" and get it to somewhat resemble what was automatically done. I also seem unable to use the same process I used on the rim mapping as it just stretches bit faces all over and makes a piled up folded up mess. Go fig. . . . . . Trying a new pattern for the mapping it is helping me tell what is upside down inside out and pointing the wrong way. You will notice some of the inner saucer panels that are like this. Plan is that they will all match the rim panels. And maybe will flow all the way in from them as well. The big argument is that maybe I shouldnt allow them to taper off IE the letters you see get smaller as the panels go inward to the bridge. It isnt much but if I say wanted a textured detail further in and along the outside it would not be the same size. This is something irksome as I am having to match thing by eye as max just choose whatever and makes it all fit a square disregarding any aspect ratio so I have to eye ball it constantly. I have yet to find any setting or toggle for this. Actually the tool for all of this is dodgy a lot of click and hold multi level tools but not written in a way that while in full screen you can even SEE the options! Clearly they expect you to fuddle around in it as a windowed object over max itself. It is like NO I am not spending more time clicking through windows heh. At time when doing this I want more than what I have for displays. Least 3 2k units or a pair of 4k ones lol. Also wish like mad I could customize this stupid UI too, tools are all over the damned place and just a lousy workflow. Oh stupid thing needs a align selected to X edge or arrange evenly paced by X. Anyhow a fruity hull.







And yes the dock doors are mapped really large so I can do any lettering etc on them.
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Old 1st May 2018, 11:57 PM   #1398
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Have to jab myself in the eye. . . .

Not sure if it is obvious while this method makes doing aztecing easy it will make smear and grime mapping a PITA. EXP streaks of grime like you see on the TOS connie. derp

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Old 2nd May 2018, 08:36 AM   #1399
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I know it's a p.i.t.a. but it's coming along nicely.

I just noticed your new avatar image; it put a smile on my face.

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Old 2nd May 2018, 09:23 AM   #1400
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Almost done I think with this part. So uh, lower saucer struts and nacelles to go. . . . Debating on the lower saucer if I will just planar map that thing for ease of grime detailing. Heck I am a bit scared to say a lot of the work of today and yesterday might get tossed for a simple exploded planar map of the saucer top. I do not look forward to painting that join of the struts to the hull. I probably should have cut myself a cheat stencil into the flat hull there. HAH. Matching that top hull to the sides looks like a world of pain too. Once all that is done it will be the fun of packing all this into a field for a painting stencil. ATM everything wants to be a long narrow strip the widest being the ships belt line. (note atm the sides and back side are overlapped so they produce a mirror effect. This is not to cheat on mapping but to align crap so I know it is the same from one side to another. Max AGAIN lacks tools for simple crap to avoid replicating work.



Anyhow figuring out cheats as I go, real issue is if I remember these stupid tricks for next time! HAH. Long and short I am pretty much flattening each part out manually re spacing the edges vertically and horz and matching the output in the viewport of the various parts. Some times pelt and peel work alright or give me something I can tell what is going on, most times though it is a pile of twisted melted crap. Same goes for straighten section often times it is overlapped mess but if I keep it to simple areas or selections it'll square things up enough to allow me to do such in sections and then loop and align edges. This is what I had to do with the bevel around the hulls edges as those were just stacked up edges and verts and impossible to work with as I have the one view only and cannot work in a 3d space. Maybe I should do a video showing what I am doing and see if it translates to anyone else?? ;p



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Old 3rd May 2018, 08:11 AM   #1401
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Ok I had planned to take a break and welp nah, didnt happen so this is where it is now mostly spent time unwraping those dart things. They are acually properly peeled so the polies are completely flat. Not that they matter that much as they are mostly going to be well dart things that are not that large. . . . . lol. Anyhow I re imaged the top part and at a stage of debate as I will no matter what end up with a seam somewhere. The thing is should I try to unpeel the rounded rim to the walls or the top and should I bother? The seam wont be seen unless i paint over it. I do have to say some battle damage I have planned will cross over this area on one side I think. now sure if it will reach that high, maybe some scorching. If I do not flatten and repatch that area it will have some stretching going on as seen in the render. Then again it could have some stretching no matter what as the hull is not square there so I will have to fudge the bits. Bah I will likely do it in the end pah.






Oh to note I had to break the walls where the strut blocks it as I had the narrow down the width of the packing. MAX demands things fit in that square so it was tiny panels on a small corner of the square or break the unwrap and move those bits around.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 10:41 PM   #1402
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well got those edges flattened out and started painting filth on.


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Old 4th May 2018, 07:59 AM   #1403
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More gunk.


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Old 5th May 2018, 03:39 AM   #1404
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Maybe not much visibly different just a mess of fine alterations and darkening of panel zones. Also added 2 renders with the old gloss maps and aniso stuff set to a different ID. So it gives a preview of what the final surface would look like.





Surfacing samples.



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Old 5th May 2018, 05:45 PM   #1405
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more grime updates >_>
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Old 6th May 2018, 02:25 AM   #1406
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Over done leaky oil look. Need to smudge it down some.
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Old 7th May 2018, 04:53 AM   #1407
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Lower saucer and misc bits UVWed now. Just the nacelles left to do, maybe some minor adjustments here and there. There are some bits that are distorted a bit more than I like.





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Old 8th May 2018, 12:28 AM   #1408
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Oh man I am SOOO sick of unwrapping polygons and messing around in this crappy UVW editor. . . Would be cool if there was an alternative to this heh.





Still have the intercoolers radiators and some of the more fiddly bits to unwrap. Yes, there is stretching in places but I just cannot be bothered to fuss with those areas to get them perfect.
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Old 8th May 2018, 08:53 AM   #1409
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Welp everything I think is done. I did find a few things missing like the torp tubes but I think I can let those slide? I also over the last week found I forgot to model somethings like a few closures of grids and details I wanted to add like those 3 grouped lights in the saucer bottom. Though they would I think be blocked by the nacelles in a line of sight manner. I imagine they are like the 3 forward ones and they had something to do with deflection or sensors. And then finally I think, I forgot to add the red lines on the saucer bottom too. (these will likely be textured on.)
So with that starts a long haul of painting maps and doing gloss aniso and rotation maps. I would lover to be lazy and lave those latter sets as ID#1 materials the tiling does not break on the grids well enough for my tastes. So loads of fun later on exp that lower saucer as that is planar mapped.




Oh and yeah I do need to figure out what happened to my bussards as the efx glass has gone whack. Likely got instanced somewhere and then altered. . . been having issues with material editor not reacting the same. IE eye dropper it seems to randomly decide to instance or copy a material. In the past it would instance it if droppered off the object but now seems to more often copy it which is troublesome and damned annoying.


ohhhh the seams the nasty seams, tried to hide them the best I could. Should have planned some breaking panels to avoid them.
Trying to keep things in some semblance of order so I am not, which thing is a part of again?

One more thing for anyone seeing the nacelles seemingly chopping off the test material or other visual wonk it is because the nacelle is broken up tiles and I have spaced them out to eliminate any over paint from one to another and allow me room to slap those gloss and aniso maps in.
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Old 9th May 2018, 04:40 AM   #1410
Madkoifish
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Some quick paintwork on the 2 lower maps. Renders are full GI with a dim key so super lit. I however might forgo to heavy green and drab that layer down on all maps. Got a lot of evening out to do on the saucer bits.



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