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Old 30th Apr 2011, 12:10 PM   #1
Tony Gardner
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Default Movie & TV Related - B5 Omega Class Destroyer

Ever since I used Meurig's Omega model in my RA entry I've had a hankering to try making one myself. So here is the start of the model...

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The 'armour' pieces around the 'head' are pretty much done, the rest is just blocking out for the moment.

As with Meurig's model mine won't be faithful to what's seen on TV, it's more of a re-imagining.

I don't know how quickly I'll move this along, I now have quite a few WIPs on the go so we'll just have to see how it goes.
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 04:20 PM   #2
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Hmmmm... That looks familiar...

And you have that really nice AO look too...
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Old 30th Apr 2011, 08:17 PM   #3
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This has always been one of my favourite ships, and it looks like you're doing a good job with her so far. I'm looking forward to this one progressing to the final result. How many poly's are we looking at so far?
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Old 1st May 2011, 05:30 AM   #4
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Thanks guys.

@JackN That's the nodal occlusion shader.

@Mattman just under 50000 but it's not really relevant as much of it is just blocked out stuff where the poly count will change drastically (some of it actually going down quite a bit).

Made a start blocking out the rotator.

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I always knew the rotator would be a sticking point for me because I never liked the original one as it just didn't make sense to me. For one thing the modules should at least attempt to follow the circular path of rotation as the decks inside would have to, on the original they were just boxes. If you assume the decks run as flat as the box surfaces then walking around inside would be a very strange experience. Walking from one side of a deck to the other would feel like walking up and then down hill, on the widest decks it would be quite a steep incline as well.

Also it didn't really make sense to me that the bulk of the mass was close in to the centre of rotation as that is where the pseudogravity would be weakest, it would make more sense to have most of the mass at the ends of the rotator to take advantage of the highest pseudogravity.

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The trouble is that designing a logical rotator makes it look so little like the classic Omega design that it doesn't work. So after some time considering my options I decided that the design in my pics gives a nice compromise. It is still pretty rough and will need some serious tidying up before it is final but I think it will do for the blocking out stage.
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Old 1st May 2011, 07:38 AM   #5
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I actually liked the original, and while it didn't really make sense to me either, it was more of the artists choice and other things which I really didn't mind -- I thought it just looked cool. However in saying that, I really like the direction you're taking with it, making sense of what was portrayed and what we know, and still making it look just like the original... that is, cool.
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Old 1st May 2011, 08:09 AM   #6
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Interesting concept with the pseudo gravity problems they would have. You would also have problems with the original design of the Coriolis Effect too in walking 'off-center' where those decks don't follow the curvature (the direction and force of the spin trying to throw you off your feet). I never thought about it before, but you are right.
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Old 1st May 2011, 08:36 AM   #7
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The Omega is one of those great designs where it's pure fun to build. No particularly challenging shapes since it's all blocky but you can really go to town with the detailing. I loved building mine. Don't use mine as scale reference though! My rotator is too big etc, I just changed it to how I prefer.

Cool start anyway, the only thing that bothers me so far is the turrets. They look a bit wimpy that small.
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Old 1st May 2011, 08:41 AM   #8
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Another issue with rotating sections (if you are trying to be accurate to design issues) is that the more mass at the outer edge of the rotation, the worse the ability to maneuver (like a spinning gyro). With the majority of the mass near the spin axis, the problem is decreased.

Probably why most spinning sections in design end up being circular tubes or spheres.

So yeah, it does come down to artist liberty!
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Old 1st May 2011, 08:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMan View Post
I actually liked the original, and while it didn't really make sense to me either, it was more of the artists choice and other things which I really didn't mind -- I thought it just looked cool. However in saying that, I really like the direction you're taking with it, making sense of what was portrayed and what we know, and still making it look just like the original... that is, cool.
Thanks Matt

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott2753 View Post
Interesting concept with the pseudo gravity problems they would have. You would also have problems with the original design of the Coriolis Effect too in walking 'off-center' where those decks don't follow the curvature (the direction and force of the spin trying to throw you off your feet). I never thought about it before, but you are right.
Things would get interesting if the crew jumped up and down as well hehe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meurig View Post
The Omega is one of those great designs where it's pure fun to build. No particularly challenging shapes since it's all blocky but you can really go to town with the detailing. I loved building mine. Don't use mine as scale reference though! My rotator is too big etc, I just changed it to how I prefer.

Cool start anyway, the only thing that bothers me so far is the turrets. They look a bit wimpy that small.
Thanks Rhys, you're right it is quite good fun doing this ship. Also, I'm actually using Matt Tarling's one as a scale reference (after resizing it to the correct length) although that said I am only loosely following it. I loved the details on yours so I'm looking forward to reaching that stage with mine.

Yeah, the guns do look 'wimpy', I'll have to do something about that

Plus I've finally had some ideas for the big guns on the front, think Gatling photorp launchers

Anyway, I think I'll call it a day on blocking out now, I want to start the details...

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Old 1st May 2011, 08:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackN View Post
Another issue with rotating sections (if you are trying to be accurate to design issues) is that the more mass at the outer edge of the rotation, the worse the ability to maneuver (like a spinning gyro). With the majority of the mass near the spin axis, the problem is decreased.

Probably why most spinning sections in design end up being circular tubes or spheres.

So yeah, it does come down to artist liberty!
True, and then of course there is the whole issue of which direction you have to apply thrust in to turn. As soon as your ship has a rotating section gyroscopic forces will turn all your thrust vectors around.
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Old 1st May 2011, 09:36 AM   #11
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I like how you noting the cobra bays at the ends of the rotating sections.

Turning the engine into that “complex gimballed affair” which was originally pencilled in for it would be pretty cool, as well as going some way to address the problems with thrust vectors. This could turn out to be quite an interesting update to what appeared on screen.
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Old 1st May 2011, 08:59 PM   #12
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Looks like a nice "start" to this.
Would like to see it a bit less washed out though.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala View Post
Looks like a nice "start" to this.
Would like to see it a bit less washed out though.
heh heh, I'm having issues with my use of AO in the opposite direction, the Occ shader seems too strong for me, I'm trying to get the balance that I feel the site banners have.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 03:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple F View Post
I like how you noting the cobra bays at the ends of the rotating sections.

Turning the engine into that “complex gimballed affair” which was originally pencilled in for it would be pretty cool, as well as going some way to address the problems with thrust vectors. This could turn out to be quite an interesting update to what appeared on screen.
I know it was never shown on TV but I do like the idea of the starfurys launching from there so yeah I'm going to model in the cobra bay doors, however as for the complex gimballed engine mounts, nah, I just don't have a clue how that would have worked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala View Post
Looks like a nice "start" to this.
Would like to see it a bit less washed out though.
Not to fear mate, I'm starting the texturing as I go now so AO renders will be few from here on out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackN View Post
heh heh, I'm having issues with my use of AO in the opposite direction, the Occ shader seems too strong for me, I'm trying to get the balance that I feel the site banners have.
I found fiddling with the range setting gave the best results but I'm not sure if the shader version of SGAmbOcc has that.

UPDATE...

Been working on the textures and starting the main guns. I really do hate UVing, and LightWaves crap UV tools don't help matters.

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I forgot to move the sun round a bit so I know it's in shadow but you can at least see it.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 06:08 PM   #15
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I cast a little more light on it...

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Of course in doing so I found some errors in the UV's which then took me forever to fix. Like I said, I hate UVing.
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Old 6th May 2011, 07:17 AM   #16
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Little bit of an update, still tweaking textures and adding details to the front section...

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Old 6th May 2011, 11:08 AM   #17
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Just for funsies...

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I'm struggling to keep in mind the scale of this thing. It turn out you could fit a 747 down the docking bay.
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Old 6th May 2011, 05:34 PM   #18
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Well. the map is ugly as hell, but the materials are very nicely set up. I'd highly recommend that you bring down the diffuse level of the maps so they arent so saturated on the model but leave the reflection settings the way they are.

The model itself is quite nice looking so far and I'll be keeping my eye on it.
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Old 6th May 2011, 05:54 PM   #19
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thats looking pretty sweet there

love the detail textures
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Old 12th May 2011, 12:41 PM   #20
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Getting back to this one after a few days off.

No more modelling done yet but I have been looking again at my texture maps and texturing. I'm much happier with these maps although they could stand a little more tweaking...

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Old 12th May 2011, 01:23 PM   #21
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Damn that's looking pretty cool, looking forward to more updates.
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Old 16th May 2011, 03:21 AM   #22
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Thanks Jim.

I was looking at Fabio's B5 renders on his site and wishing I had a clue how he does his texturing so I started experimenting.I quite like this style (I think it help to sell the size of the ship) but I need to tweak it to make it look a little more like metal I think...

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If anyone has any advice on how to improve the look of these panels I'd be interested.

(PS. Sorry Fabio for blatantly ripping off your presentation style, but it looked so nice Also I finally figured out how to get foreground image compositing to work in Lightwave so I don't have to manually put the titles in any more ).
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Old 16th May 2011, 03:26 AM   #23
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Lovely....
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Old 16th May 2011, 03:27 AM   #24
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Thanks Shaggy
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Old 16th May 2011, 03:33 AM   #25
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Hmm, the latest textures really don't work for me. Much too busy. I think I'd prefer a blend of your first and second version.
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Old 16th May 2011, 03:39 AM   #26
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I'd say too strong rather than too busy. The idea seems very good but I'd suggest dialing down the variations between panels by about 60%, and reducing the bump too.

This will also help you render with lower AA settings!

It's something I've been doing myself on my N-1, where I seem to have homed in on variations of a few percent in things like the patterns in the diffuse / specular channels.

Personally I am also using multiple variations on the same settings for different parts, also different by a few percent. I find it can help subtly emphasise the different sections.

Nick

(PS - Also very easy to experiment with if you are using maps! Just lower the contrast in the LW image editor!
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Old 16th May 2011, 07:25 AM   #27
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So the little panels are displacement maps? What's your technique for generating those?
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Old 16th May 2011, 08:42 AM   #28
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@Meurig & Starbase, ok guys, taking another pass at this...

@Jim, The little panels are a normal map. I made a flat poly and placed modelled panels on to it at slightly varied heights (in this case the panels came from Meshweaver's Ultimate Nurnie Kit). I made them white, turned off all the lights and assigned luminosity based on height, 100% at the highest point, 0% at the base poly. Then I made a render using the orthogonal camera. In essence this makes a bump map.

I then loaded the bump map into Photoshop and applied the Nvidia normal map filter to it reversing Y and giving it a vertical exaggeration of 10x.

This is then applied using the Normal Map Node in LightWave.

OK, here is the latest attempt on the side armour panel textures...

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It's getting closer to the look I'm after. I've used a weight map to allow me to vary slightly the base colour of the big (modelled) panels, at the moment i think some of them are a little too light. Sigh, more tweaking I guess.

Again, any suggestions welcomed.
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Old 16th May 2011, 08:51 AM   #29
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Tony,

Thanks for the explanation! Other than normal maps being less resource intensive to process, is there any reason you would use them over a formal displacement map? Would the displacement map look much better or is it mostly a wash for details like this?
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Old 16th May 2011, 08:54 AM   #30
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Lightwave doesn't handle displacement very well.


The latest texture is better, but still too busy IMO. The Omega has a nice contrast design wise between uber detailed bits and open flat areas. I prefer a look which makes that contrast more obvious but as is the whole thing will look really busy and micro-panelled. Anything rendered from slightly further away will make that panelled surface look like noise.
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