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Old 6th Sep 2017, 07:06 AM   #1
Crook
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Default LightWave - Hiding geometry in some circumstances

I have a TARDIS model, and have been thinking about the interior. I'd prefer it to be all in one place, but can't see how to do it - if it's even possible in LW.

I want the internal geometry to be invisible of course from the outside, but when the doors are opened and you see in, the internal geometry is there, and you can move into it and move the camera around the internal area (of course, hiding the outside geometry at this point, but only when moved over the threshold of the door)

I guess it's easier to do it in post with the two models and render the internal of the tardis bright green or something as a chroma key to punch it out and having the internals rendered with the same camera movement - just wondering if it can be achieved within LW alone.
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Old 6th Sep 2017, 07:55 AM   #2
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That would be very tricky to do as a render. Definitely easier to do it as a composite.
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Old 6th Sep 2017, 09:25 AM   #3
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Yeah, I can easily do it as a composite, but there's something about it that it feels like it should be doable in a 3D application.
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Old 6th Sep 2017, 11:43 AM   #4
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Maybe with some kind of live texture and camera mapping. A plane with that texture in the door and the interior somewhere hidden in the scene... mmm tricky....
I don't see a way to have both geometries at the same place at the same time without making a mess.
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Old 6th Sep 2017, 06:58 PM   #5
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I know it's possible to do in certain game engines, to an extent. The interior wouldn't be "inside" the exterior, but would be hidden somewhere out of sight like below the floor, and there's a special polygon (like a portal from "Portal") that joins the two right inside the threshold.


The theory sounds like something that should be doable in Lightwave on a program-level (a matched pair of single-poly "windows" in the door of the interior and exterior that intercept/project rays from one to the other), but the closest thing I know of is the CCTV function, which isn't quite right.

Actually, that could work, if you're not using real lights (I assume CCTV works in HDR). Two cameras that are matched to each other (channel follower or something), one outside the police box, and one outside the console room. Texture the plane with CCTV set to front-projection. (I suppose you'd also want a second pair for the other side of the door to get reflections and lighting, though set up a bit differently). It's still basically the same setup as if you were going to composite it, except being rendered live rather than having the inside of the phone box mapped with a matte object or something. The real advantage would be getting interactive lighting from the environment into the console room and vice versa without having to rig up some kind of dummy light rig on either side.

I'd still rather someone just made a plug-in that created a surface that could transpose rays from a polygon to its match, but this setup sounds like a lot of fun, even if it is hard to explain.
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Old 6th Sep 2017, 06:58 PM   #6
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I did this for the documentary The Ties that Bind Us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FINtyrzj0VE

I had the TARDIS at 0,0,0 and the console room set doors standing at the same place. Then I moved the camera how I wanted in the console room animation. And matched the path exactly on the TARDIS animation. The TARDIS had a green screen inside. So I just composited the two and they blended pretty seamlessly if you ask me.

All done in LW and After Effects more than 12 years ago.
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Old 8th Sep 2017, 12:56 PM   #7
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in theory you could have 2 cameras, have the motions copy each other (just keyframe one camera and then clone the camera), then move one camera along with the inside of the tardis with something like the move path tool (or maybe parent all the items to a null then move the null out of view of your outside tardis scene,) then use the cctv shader on a flat poly in the door way, never tested it but the theory works in my head.
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Old 9th Sep 2017, 07:53 AM   #8
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Okay, this discussion has gotten me thinking.

If your camera is going straight in through the door, put a partial interior set behind the facade of the booth. Just what can be seen through the doorway. Have the full set off camera.

Key frame the camera motion to the very threshold. Let's say that's frame 100. On frame 101, move the camera to the threshold of the interior set. Make sure your motion path options are set to Linear so the camera doesn't "anticipate" the frame. Do it right and no-one will notice that the camera jump over to X 5,000 rather than staying at X 0.
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Old 9th Sep 2017, 01:51 PM   #9
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That's a tricky one to pull off I guess - requiring a full second set of lights and location B? With the CCTV shader though, that might work.
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Old 11th Sep 2017, 12:26 PM   #10
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Reminds me of this: http://polycount.com/discussion/comm...omment_2571581
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 06:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sastrei View Post
Does anyone know if there is such a shader / node for lightwave that does this? It would be great for windowed rooms for starships and specifically B5. I had to abandon modelling rooms for B5 because of polycounts and render times. If it were a shader, that would be amazing.
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 12:42 PM   #12
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http://www.euriskostudios.com/es/plugin_pages/vRoom.php
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Old 14th Sep 2017, 01:26 PM   #13
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Another option that occurs to me is to have two or more cameras. You switch between cameras in a scene. very similar to what Rigel mentioned, but you could set up two areas with two different cameras both use the same null for forward motion. Since they would use different cameras with different object visibility properties you could render frames 1-100 using camera 1 with the proper objects set as visible, and then frames 100+ using camera 2 with the proper objects set as visible.

Lastly, and slightly more difficult to motion match, would be to render the entire scene up to the threshold with out the interior, and use that as the animated texture a front facing polygon with a door in it. You'd have to motion match the hole in the polygon to the outline of the door, but the front facing polygon could block the camera from seeing the interior before it should be visible.
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