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Old 29th Aug 2008, 12:24 AM   #1
Josh2481
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Default Lightwave 3d 9.5-Metallic Car Paint

So I started working on something today, and beings I'm always up for some c&c I thought I'd post a texture(surface) wip. After seeing Bmckain's Dream of Genie thread. I asked if he would share some input on his metal flake. He shared the surface and I am very grateful for that. I started to dissect his surface and started to create a Metallic Car Paint surface. This photo is my progress so far. I have yet to build me a proper "Studio scene" so what I have here isn't very good for rendering this kind of thing but its a start. The feature so far are a metal flake and a minor bump to simulate the "Orange Peel" effect you get with any kind of sprayed coating. Its hard to see in the first photo. Anyway what I'm looking for is some feedback on how it looks, what you think I could do to improve it. When I feel I have a base surface ready. I will release a preset.

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Old 29th Aug 2008, 03:50 AM   #2
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Check out my speckly green car paint at preset Central : http://www.presetcentral.com/preset/79/

Also did you know there was a Car Paint Shader material in the LW 9.5.1 beta? http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87835
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 06:22 AM   #3
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Just need to add the new Flake node to add flakes to the CarPaint node Texture....
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 09:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobian View Post
Check out my speckly green car paint at preset Central : http://www.presetcentral.com/preset/79/

Also did you know there was a Car Paint Shader material in the LW 9.5.1 beta? http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87835
I do believe 9.5.1 is under NDA at this point there. Not suppose to talk about it.
Other then that I'll check out your preset.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 10:47 AM   #5
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I don't know if LW uses Mental Ray but your textures seems to have little 'depth'. Perhaps it's your lighting setup? It's nice to see a deep rich shiny texture or perhaps you're going for a different look.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 11:13 AM   #6
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My lighting is horrible, one of the things I need to really work on. I am going for a deep shine look but still have a lot to work on on this. I'm actually kinda at a hault till I can get a good lighting setup. For it.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 12:55 PM   #7
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I use 3ds Max9 (yeah, I'm the black sheep of the family, here) and if you check out my teapot in the 3D Still section you'll see my texture which I also use on vehicles. It's a combination of good lightning, mental ray, and reflectivity. I could give you a few pointers to set up a 'studio' to highlight your work. Maybe even give you the same texture I use. Not sure how it differs between the two software.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 01:27 PM   #8
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Well I've been tweaking and adding things and made a different scene for my render.
Here is my node setup,
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and how it turns out now.
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I feel its looking better but still think it needs work.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 03:20 PM   #9
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Ok a couple of tips for you....

1) the reason it looks a bit flat is you actually need a BRDF specular effect, which is why in my shader there's two specular nodes, one for the glossy wax layer, and one for the speckly paint node, which is much wider, but driven by a noise preset.

2) also, you need something to reflect in your scene. Put some large reflector panels in your scene which are 100+ % luminous, to give that 'studio lighting' feel, especially if you mix them with large area lights, to give the right shadowing.

3) You should be using a Fresnel reflection function in your reflective channel,not just 'incidence', and you should also be using your nodes to build an 'energy conserving' shading: reflection + diffuse = 100% - which is how I am building most of my shiny surfaces these days, and light accordingly. This is specifically what the Delta material is for, but 'materials' render slower than even nodes based shading, and to do proper BRDF's you would need to do either some complex shenanigans, or a mixer node, which means 2 delta shading nodes - not good for render time - hence they are making this type of shader for LW's materials

4) use reflection blur!

5) use interpolated reflection blur if you can get it to work, for faster reflection rendering!
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 03:36 PM   #10
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My reflection and diffuse don't add to above 80%. I haven't taken a look at your setup yet but I will. I'm trying not to just copy someone's work.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 04:02 PM   #11
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lol, I should look at the nodes a little closer, I just realized there was a fresnel node. I like your setup now to dissect it and learn from it.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 04:08 PM   #12
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That's why I put it up there! It's not hugely complex. I did try and add some reflection blurred sprinkles, but it was turning into a mare, so I shall wait on the car paint shader to have a look at their solution

Also understand the environment too. Getting good reflection-based specular requires super bright luminous objects (2-400%!) or using an HDRI image for your environment.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 04:11 PM   #13
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Can I ask what the advantage of using the color channel of the gradient for the diffuse and reflection is?
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 04:35 PM   #14
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Ok I took yours and have tweaked it. Here is where its at now(still haven't added any reflection panels in).
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Name:	carpainttest002.jpg
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 04:35 PM   #15
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Err nothing really: You have 2 outputs in a gradient: A colour and an alpha chanel - since I modified the colours rather than the alpha, that's the output I used.

There are 3 types of output in nodes:
colour = red
scalar = green
vector = blue

Now you can often use vectors for colour, since a vector contains 3 sets of data, much like colour (xyz and rgb) so they behave much the same.

if colour isn't an issue, use a scalar (0 -> 1 or more). If you plug a 'colour' into a scalar, then you usually just get the luma value of the colour as a scalar, which is why I do that, for speed. You could use a colour->scalar node if you wanted to pick out a particular colour, or alter an image on a per chanel basis (one set to red, one set to green and one blue).

Hope that helps some ?
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 04:37 PM   #16
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Hmm a bit too reflective I think, which is why I have an altered gradient Fresnel ( I simply raised the centre from 0) but you shouldn't add too much!
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 04:49 PM   #17
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Oh I knew that, I just wanted to know if there was any advantage to using the color channel instead of the scalar.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 05:06 PM   #18
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Would you like that advantage rating in scalar, colour or vector format?

Seriously though I tend to use just the colour value myself - as when you start assigning alpha values to a gradient it makes it hard to 'see' what you are doing in the preview swatches. Just personal preference.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 05:12 PM   #19
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ahh ok, I see. For the most part my new setup is very similar to yours but I'm using a different gradient setup(Frensel instead of incidence).
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 05:20 PM   #20
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bmckain upload a car showroom to the resources section I believe. He designed it to be a good place to show off car models.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 05:51 PM   #21
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Ok here is a mix of your preset, and what I already had. I tweaked the lighting in my scene. This is using a single 100% intensity spherical for primary light, with Final Gather Radiosity set to 75% Intensity. 3 area lights for spec only in front of the bounce cards there.

I know this may seem like a lot for just a surface but I'm rather clueless about these things.
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Click image for larger version

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Sorry for two attachments, after I uploaded the first one, I realized it was to small so I uploaded a larger one.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 07:12 PM   #22
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Looks pretty good. I would say make the bounce cards self illuminating, so they contribute more 'specular' and give the surface some reflection blur, just a small ammount!
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 07:23 PM   #23
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What ya mean by self illuminating? I have them set to 100% Illumination now.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 07:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh2481 View Post
What ya mean by self illuminating? I have them set to 100% Illumination now.
You can actually go over 100% though personally I tend to be careful about that, you can blow a scene out real quick. But they are only set to spec so you should be able to get away with up to 150% pretty easilly.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 07:57 PM   #25
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Ya just checked the surface for em is at 150%.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 08:22 PM   #26
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So I decided to test it on a more complex object(lots of curves). So I took that rim I did and applied that surface, changed the color to a near black. What came out is what I think a rather good looking Gun Metal Color. You be the judge.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 08:34 PM   #27
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It is looking pretty darn good, but I thought the first one did too so I don't think I am a good judge.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 08:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmckain View Post
It is looking pretty darn good, but I thought the first one did too so I don't think I am a good judge.
lol I'm a bit of a perfectionist and is the reason nothing I do ever gets finished cause I keep redoing things and all that, but I think for the first time. I feel like this is actually done. I really don't know what else I could do to make this look any better.
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Old 30th Aug 2008, 08:22 AM   #29
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Relfections and reflection amount is a tough balancing act to get right, hence I suggest people think more in a high dynamic range, rather than a low dunamic range (1-100%).

In a complex surface like that, you often need to exceed luminosity values above 100% because the amount of reflectiveness should be low. For example: You said that it's colour is near black, yet it looks grey? That's because you reflection ammount is too high. So you turn down reflection and... oh, your 'hotspot' objects just aren't cutting it? They aren't bright enough.

The way I think of it is this. If you have a low reflectivity surface, such as a ceramic like finish. On the front facing you should see pretty much most of the surface underneath (and your fresnel gradient means on your side facing it's quite mirror like). Yet if you have an LDR environment, 'luminous' objects or images hardly show. In real life this is not the case, so you use a high dynamic range environment to help hotspots still appear on surfaces, even when their reflectivity is still only a couple of percent.
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Old 30th Aug 2008, 12:00 PM   #30
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What you see in that image is exactly what I was going for. I understand what your saying though.
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