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Old 28th Jul 2015, 06:43 AM   #1
ronaldheld
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Default Star Trek - Kirk's Enterprise part 3

I have been away for too long for a variety of reasons. I am trying to get back to work but have forgotten much modeling techniques. Before I take on new objects I want to fix problems with the Enterprise. In the .avi file you can see a circular band in the engineering hull. Any clue what caused it and how to fix it?JTB.avi
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Old 28th Jul 2015, 08:44 AM   #2
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If I had to guess (and I do) I would say it's a bump map.

Give us some screen shots of the model in Modeler, without textures.
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Old 28th Jul 2015, 11:16 PM   #3
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Maybe a duplicated set of polygons on top of each other? Merging points and unifying polygons might fix it.
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Old 29th Jul 2015, 05:12 AM   #4
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Rigel, please refresh my memory as to how to do what you want in Modeler 10.0
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Old 29th Jul 2015, 07:52 AM   #5
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If you're using Windows, hit the PrntScrn button over by the number pad somewhere. Or use a screen capture program.
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Old 30th Jul 2015, 05:13 AM   #6
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Rigel, laptop just died but I will see what I can do.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 06:42 AM   #7
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Rigel will this do?
Screenshot (1).png
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Old 5th Aug 2015, 05:22 PM   #8
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If that imsgecis not good enough, you can download this: http://www.foundation3d.com/index.ph...13_fileid=1383
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Old 6th Aug 2015, 04:52 AM   #9
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Okay, so from the screen shot I can see there is a strip modelled into the hull there. I'm not sure why the modeller put that there; it's not really necessary.

Next thing for you to check is whether or not that strip has a different surface than the rest of the hull. If so, it's an easy fix. Open your texture panel (F5 by default), find the surface for the hull, right-click that surface name and choose Copy. Find the surface for that strip, right-click its name and choose Paste. With the same surface it won't show up any more.

If it has the same surface already, then it's a smoothing error and it would be best to simply remove the strip from the geometry.
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Old 6th Aug 2015, 08:04 AM   #10
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Rigel, I already did the surface check and it is not it's own surface. Optically it seems to be a depression. I have not done any modeling in over 5 years and on 10.0. how do I do that and will that produce an gap on the Engineering hull?
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Old 7th Aug 2015, 03:31 PM   #11
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I downloaded the model and had a look at it. There are three problems.

The first is, I don't understand why you want a ring around the hull. I've never seen that on this ship.

Secondly, there is a separate ring lying on top of the ring modelled into the hull. Select the engineering hull ring surface and hit the delete button gets rid of that.

Then you're left with the mess you can see in the screen grab I uploaded. What you can see happening is the points have passed each other and are not attached to the rest of the mesh. Those polygons pass through each other and hover over the surface of the hull.

That plus the duplicate ring right on top of them is causing the "depression" and causing it to render as a dark strip.

There are two ways to fix this, both are going to take some time.

1) Select two points on opposite sides of the ring and use the Weld Average tool (found on the Detail tab). Select the next pair and repeat. Once you do all of that, the ring is gone and presumably so are your render errors.

2) The other option is to select the polygons in the ring and delete them. Then you select two edges on opposite sides of the gap and use the Bridge tool to create a new polygon across the gap.

The first method eliminates the ring, the second method leaves you with a ring.
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Old 8th Aug 2015, 06:04 PM   #12
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Rigel I did not see this post this morning, so I deleted the ring of polys that made up the Engineering hull ring(no surface is found in the surface editor). You then suggest option one?
I did see the rendering errors gone with what I had done.
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Old 9th Aug 2015, 08:04 AM   #13
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I did select two points and selected verld points to average. It then used 8 points. What did I do incorrectly?
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Old 9th Aug 2015, 06:54 PM   #14
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If you welded 8 points then you had 8 selected. If you are selecting your points in the side view, it will select all of the points on both sides of the model.

After selecting your two points a) check the information display in the bottom left and make sure it says 2 points or b) hit SHIFT-A which causes it to zoom in on the selected. If you have more than two points, it will zoom out and you can deselect the ones you don't want.
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Old 10th Aug 2015, 06:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel View Post
If you welded 8 points then you had 8 selected. If you are selecting your points in the side view, it will select all of the points on both sides of the model.

After selecting your two points a) check the information display in the bottom left and make sure it says 2 points or b) hit SHIFT-A which causes it to zoom in on the selected. If you have more than two points, it will zoom out and you can deselect the ones you don't want.
I suspected that but I am working on a small tablet and had little time over last week to do to much. I did not select the opposing points on the other side but nearby ones, due to lack of enough zooming?
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Old 17th Aug 2015, 06:30 AM   #16
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Rigel, I have not had much time to do LW recently.
I noticed that, when removing the symmetric points on the Engineering hull and even the ones directly across to be bridged, that there is more than one point when I expected only one. Do I weld those points before using the bridge points option? Finally why does the bridging results look like an x inside a box including unselected points?
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 05:41 AM   #17
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Rigel need more advanced advice. I select the two points, removed the symmetric ones on the other side of the hull. The count is 8 not two points. I weld the 4 points into 1, twice and see 2 points. Using the weld to average option, I see a cross structure including points above and below the two I selected. What is going on and how do t perform this operation correctly?
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 08:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldheld View Post
Rigel, I have not had much time to do LW recently.
I noticed that, when removing the symmetric points on the Engineering hull and even the ones directly across to be bridged, that there is more than one point when I expected only one. Do I weld those points before using the bridge points option? Finally why does the bridging results look like an x inside a box including unselected points?
If you're getting a polygon that crosses itself, it's because the points were selected in the wrong order.



In the above diagram, if you select the points in the order of 1, 2, 4, 3 you will create a twisted polygon. This often happens if you select those points from the side view (i.e. you only need to click on 2 points instead of all 4) or you use the right mouse button to lasso select the four.

To create a polygon with those point, you need to use the viewport that shows all four points and click them in the proper order.

Also note, if you select them as 1, 2, 3, 4 the polygon will face one direction. If you select 4, 3, 2, 1 the polygon will face the other way.
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Old 6th Sep 2015, 08:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldheld View Post
Rigel need more advanced advice. I select the two points, removed the symmetric ones on the other side of the hull. The count is 8 not two points. I weld the 4 points into 1, twice and see 2 points. Using the weld to average option, I see a cross structure including points above and below the two I selected. What is going on and how do t perform this operation correctly?
I have no idea what you are talking about here. You'll have to post screen shots showing step by step what you are doing and what the end result is.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 05:18 AM   #20
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Trying to return to modeling. Anyone have plans or detailed advice for modeling the Planet Killer in the Doomsday Machine?
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 09:11 AM   #21
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I don't know if I have any reference pics of it. These days I might rough out the basic shape in lightwave and then detail it out in zbrush.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 10:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldheld View Post
Trying to return to modeling. Anyone have plans or detailed advice for modeling the Planet Killer in the Doomsday Machine?
I made a Doomsday Machine a very long time ago.

Maybe you can use it to learn what not to do.

Good Luck
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Old 19th Aug 2016, 05:19 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcode View Post
I made a Doomsday Machine a very long time ago.

Maybe you can use it to learn what not to do.

Good Luck
Oldcode, I doubt i could do better. Was yours the one starting out as a torus? Anyone's thpughts on starting with a cone in a cone?
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Old 19th Aug 2016, 09:39 AM   #24
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Yes, I used two actually. I took a torus and gave it lots of segments then stretched it out. I then used magnets to mold it like a lump of clay. Actually, the model is in two segments. I did several versions attempting to get the shape just right. I ended up liking the front of one, but the back of another, so I merged them. Not very well if you look carefully.

It came out okay. I do think mine better than the one that they did for Special Edition, but I was never able to texture it properly. I wanted something like the glowing purple from the original, but I have no talent for that.

I think I tried using a cone at one point, but it was so long ago I'm not sure. If you gave it enough segments, and are good with the morphing tools, that could work.

Good Luck,
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Old 20th Aug 2016, 05:22 AM   #25
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have to ruminate on this Oldcode. I see lots of segments needed and use of the magnet.
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