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Old 12th Aug 2010, 06:17 PM   #1
Mook
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Default Inanimate - Product Shot

Hey all
Been a while since I've posted anything on here, I blame real life getting in the way. Work all day most days, then evenings I've been going out. What time I've had for 3D I've spent working through some tutorials, from Simply Lightwave. I've only made it through one of them so far, the product shot tutorial, which Gordon posted his results for a while back. I still have 3 or so more different sets of tutes to go, but I'll make a new thread for each so it doesn't get confusing.
Here's the shots:
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Name:	SingleBottle_Open_rgb0000.jpg
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Little bit gutted about the quality of the labels, but they are just JPGs pulled off the net. If I was doing it in real life (i.e. for a client, as opposed to following a tutorial) I would make more of an effort to get better labels!
Enjoy, and as always, comments and crit more than welcome. In fact, I encourage it.
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Old 12th Aug 2010, 09:28 PM   #2
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Great! the captions don't look that bad!
There are just two things which I'm not so convinced by:
I'm not quite sure what the dark grey fuzzy blob is on the right hand side down the bottom.
And the only other thing is the strip of dark red (actually, it's on all the bottles, it's just really noticeable on the red bottle)
Is it part of the label [i.e. where the label was connected]? If it is, then perhaps the seam on the bottle is too obvious (as in the seam on the purple bottle, how it sticks out more than would be realistic with a plastic label).
But, as I always seem to say to everyone on this site, if I saw this image and didn't know it wasn't CG, I wouldn't be on the hunt for imperfections, and so those points wouldn't have crossed my mind.
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 12:46 AM   #3
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Looks great Mook. It was a good tutorial. The only things I can see, and they are personal preference, are that I put a very subtle bump onthe label to break up the edges of the defection and I would make the shots s little more contrasty ( even just in Photoshop)

Great work though. What other tutees did you get?
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 04:57 AM   #4
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Great! the captions don't look that bad!
There are just two things which I'm not so convinced by:
I'm not quite sure what the dark grey fuzzy blob is on the right hand side down the bottom.
And the only other thing is the strip of dark red (actually, it's on all the bottles, it's just really noticeable on the red bottle)
Is it part of the label [i.e. where the label was connected]? If it is, then perhaps the seam on the bottle is too obvious (as in the seam on the purple bottle, how it sticks out more than would be realistic with a plastic label).
But, as I always seem to say to everyone on this site, if I saw this image and didn't know it wasn't CG, I wouldn't be on the hunt for imperfections, and so those points wouldn't have crossed my mind.
Thanks George. It took me a while to realise what the dark grey blob was, especially since it was there in the raw render, so it didn't come from my tinkering in post. I think it's because there is a light board polygon (just a white poly to catch the light and reflect it back) right there, and so it is lighter in front than behind, because there is no light being reflected back.
Just checked the scene file, and that is exactly what it is; should be a simple fix, just moving it slightly out of camera view! Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't even notice it.
Regarding the dark red line, are you meaning the vertical one on the left half of the red bottle? That is indeed the seam, it's just on the back for that particular bottle. I think you are right about the seam sticking out too far; I had wondered about it when I was setting up the bump map but couldn't really come to a decision, so I figured I'd just do a render and see how it looked from there. Then I forgot about it.
I'll definitely tone it down somewhat, hopefully that will clear out some of the shadowing that is there at the moment.
Thanks again for stopping in and sharing your thoughts!
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Looks great Mook. It was a good tutorial. The only things I can see, and they are personal preference, are that I put a very subtle bump onthe label to break up the edges of the defection and I would make the shots s little more contrasty ( even just in Photoshop)

Great work though. What other tutees did you get?
Thanks Gordon, I was kinda hoping you'd stop by! I enjoyed the tutorial too, there were a few off moments (like crashing Lightwave(!), and not explaining why he was doing what he was doing), but overall was quite good, and I certainly learnt something from it!
Thanks for the advice, I will certainly do that. I just tweaked the contrast in Photoshop of the JPG renders after reading your comment, and have to say I agree, it looks so much better. I didn't even think of trying that, but was trying to figure out why the three bottle render looked so washed out compared to the other two. I'll re-render the shots once I've fixed the issues brought up, then tweak the exposure in the raw EXR render rather than just doing it to the finished JPG!
Regarding the bump map, what would you recommend? It's a good idea, I'll definitely add one in.
I picked up the Product Shot tutorial as part of the Photo Bundle, which also contained 'HDR Glass' and 'Shiny Metal Things', and picked up the Photorealistic Visualisation tute as well. Looking forward to finishing all of them, and hopefully carrying all the lessons across to my P47.
Thanks again both for stopping in and commenting!
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 05:02 AM   #5
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Having done product shots before, I know how much work goes into this Wonderful work mate.......................brilliantly put together.
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 06:01 AM   #6
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Mook I can't remember what bump I put on, other than it was small scale and low intensity. If you can wait, I'll take a look at mine tonight. Other than that try one of the procudurals and mess about.
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 06:16 AM   #7
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Having done product shots before, I know how much work goes into this Wonderful work mate.......................brilliantly put together.
Thanks Marty, much appreciated!
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Mook I can't remember what bump I put on, other than it was small scale and low intensity. If you can wait, I'll take a look at mine tonight. Other than that try one of the procudurals and mess about.
Sweet as. That would be cool if you could have a look for me, although I'm off to bed now and have work tomorrow, so probably won't be back at this til tomorrow night.
Still trying to figure out what the deal is with that dark line down the red bottle, as it turns out it's nothing to do with the bump map on the bottle, but disappears when I hide the Water layer... so I'm quite confused at the moment...
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 06:21 AM   #8
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Are you using a spherical reflection map anywhere? I could be mistaken but it may be a seam in your reflection if that's the case
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 06:35 AM   #9
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Still trying to figure out what the deal is with that dark line down the red bottle, as it turns out it's nothing to do with the bump map on the bottle, but disappears when I hide the Water layer... so I'm quite confused at the moment...
Could it be that the 'water' and 'bottle' polygons somehow intersect creating that seam? I sometimes get that when I invert the bottle polygons to get the liquid inside... I usually just resize the 'liquid' to something like 99.9% of it's original size.
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 09:29 AM   #10
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Looks to me like the edges of your set ( if you have one) very hard to tell though.
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 09:37 AM   #11
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Nice work, believe it or not I've just mad ethis bottle myself for a project. I scanned in the lable so i've got a high res version if you want it (it's the orange bottle). As to the dark line, it's not as simple as the seam is casting a shadow on the liquid layer ?
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 11:40 AM   #12
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It's visible on the middle one too, but not as obvious and that's definately not the seam.
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Old 13th Aug 2010, 11:52 AM   #13
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Looks pretty cool, dude. Nice work, eh.

I recall when Gordo did these drinks. Where did you guys find these tuts?

EDIT: Never-mind, Googled it: http://www.simplylightwave.com/, thanks for the start point.

Keep up the good work, look forward to seeing more, and good to see ya, my friend!

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Old 14th Aug 2010, 05:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by today View Post
Are you using a spherical reflection map anywhere? I could be mistaken but it may be a seam in your reflection if that's the case
Hey mate, thanks for the suggestion. As it stands I'm not actually any reflection maps, not even an HDR, which is a weird feeling for me... A good idea though, thanks again!
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Could it be that the 'water' and 'bottle' polygons somehow intersect creating that seam? I sometimes get that when I invert the bottle polygons to get the liquid inside... I usually just resize the 'liquid' to something like 99.9% of it's original size.
Thanks mate, I have wondered if it was that. I was trying that last night but even completely removing the bump from the bottle had no effect, which really confused me!
I think the only trouble with resizing the liquid is you sometimes lose the odd refractions that you get that mirrors real life liquid in a glass, where it looks like the liquid goes all the way to the outer edge. I've done that a couple of times and noticed the difference!
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Looks to me like the edges of your set ( if you have one) very hard to tell though.
Thanks for the idea; I checked the size of the sweep after reading your comment, but it seems it is massive enough to fully cover the back. I can't help but think it's something to do with the polygon lighting causing shadows, perhaps? I'm tweaking at the moment, but I can't seem to pin down the problem, argh argh argh.
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Nice work, believe it or not I've just mad ethis bottle myself for a project. I scanned in the lable so i've got a high res version if you want it (it's the orange bottle). As to the dark line, it's not as simple as the seam is casting a shadow on the liquid layer ?
Thanks Hal! Actually, that would be amazing if you could get it to me! The pics I found were reasonably good quality, but upon rendering they don't look quite as good as I was hoping. I figured the only way around it was to either a) buy a bottle, and scan the label, which would mean I'd have to drink the horrid stuff! or b) rebuild the label myself in Photoshop, which would take forever and a day, but is what I would do if it was for a client instead of just my own edification.
Regarding the dark line, I don't think it is the bump map at all; as I mentioned above, I've tried turning off the bump map completely, but the line still seems to stay there, but I can make it move around when I move the poly lights. Curiouser and curiouser...
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It's visible on the middle one too, but not as obvious and that's definately not the seam.
Agreed, I think it must be some random shadowing. I think I've narrowed it down, but I'm still experimenting at the moment trying to make it disappear!
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Looks pretty cool, dude. Nice work, eh.

I recall when Gordo did these drinks. Where did you guys find these tuts?

EDIT: Never-mind, Googled it: http://www.simplylightwave.com/, thanks for the start point.

Keep up the good work, look forward to seeing more, and good to see ya, my friend!

deg
Thanks deg, always nice to have you stop by! Yeah SimplyLightwave is the one, quite a good resource if you don't mind paying for the tutorials. Cost me $125NZD (which was converted from about 70 Pound), so not that expensive really, to learn something which will hopefully teach me in an area I've been trying to improve in for quite a while now!
Thanks again, I'll be working the first half of the week so I can re-render these with the problem fixed, then during the second half I can hopefully get stuck in to the next one, which will be the 'Shiny Metal Things' tute.
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Old 14th Aug 2010, 06:04 AM   #15
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Mook

It was just an inverted 'crumple' on the bump channel. Here is the setup and you can see the slight texture it gives to the label.

Regarding your line, happy to take a look at it if you want an extra pair of eyes. Just zip it up and post it here or send it to gordonrobb@vivivdred.co.uk.
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Old 14th Aug 2010, 07:04 AM   #16
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Ok think I might know what it is. It's the seam on the other side of the bottle which is being deformed through the refraction of the liquid and casting a shadow on the water. Try a render with the seam facing the camera dead on and I bet it that line will have gone.
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Old 14th Aug 2010, 10:16 PM   #17
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I think I've got most of it figured out, it did seem to be what I thought. It turned out to be the dark area directly behind the light board, which was getting picked up in the refractions. It's not 100% fixed, but I had a quick look at the final renders that the guy doing the tutorial came up with, and mine looks not too dissimilar to his, so I'll think I'll leave it for now! That way I can move on with another one of them. I'll try get these rendering during the days when I'm at work. Here's a quick test render, of the latest. Still to add the slight bump Gordon has suggested, and since this render I've also changed the camera from perspective to real lens, just to see what it looks like. Should be interesting to see the difference.
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 12:23 AM   #18
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Looks great mate. And doesn't suffer for not having the bump on the label.
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 12:29 AM   #19
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I'm thirsty . . .
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 12:25 PM   #20
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Looks great mate. And doesn't suffer for not having the bump on the label.
Thanks mate! I wanted to see what it would look like with the bump, so it's on there in the final render.
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I'm thirsty . . .
Lol! Hopefully not for one of these, they taste rotten...!

Here's the first of the updated renders, with a bit of post work. Thoughts?
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Cheers
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 12:50 PM   #21
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Lol! Hopefully not for one of these, they taste rotten...!

Attachment 41981

Cheers
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LOL, don't tell that to your clients until well after they've paid

As for the image, it looked good to me to start with so I better stay out of the C&C's on this one.
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 04:34 PM   #22
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Its beautiful. Well done.
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 12:08 AM   #23
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LOL, don't tell that to your clients until well after they've paid

As for the image, it looked good to me to start with so I better stay out of the C&C's on this one.
Lol! True that, probably not a good thing to mention to someone giving away money...
And thanks heaps! Glad you like it.
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Its beautiful. Well done.
Thanks Gordon!

Here's the second one, the third is rendering at the moment.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 05:23 AM   #24
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And the third one, after far too large a render time...
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 10:51 AM   #25
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Beautiful.
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